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Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. #2. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. Step 2: Determine the room's center. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. . Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. Hi.I have a unique situation. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. I would get someone else. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. We recommend our users to update the browser. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Cut the shower tray to size. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Why you use cement board? Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. Will use the Schluter Shower system. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. In . Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. I've never had a failure. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. x 96 in. I would avoid Hardi, as Avanti is right that it is thirsty. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. #3 This is a DIY site. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. The colour is different. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. Your email address will not be published. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? ;). One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Also - use a good thinset. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. x 60 in. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. What? Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. . Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. But there are downsides. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. It fell right off? We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. You provide the pitch during the tile set. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. the cost of the tile job. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. We want that inside corner able to move. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. 120 sq feet including the floor. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? . I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. Go with smaller bags or only mix half. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. Like the example above. Personally, I like standard drywall. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. They are square. Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. The shower is ready for tile. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. We sponge water onto the cement board. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. :/. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Step 4: Place the Tile. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. I trust it and have never had a callback. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. tripadvisor car rental tampa airport xnxx big tits; roommate questionnaire google form shadow of the dragon queen deluxe; cities where home prices are rising 2022 beachbody bodi block; mahogany tree seeds uses Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. Anytime Mongo. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board.