"Addressing this topic or the subject of the upcoming vote from the pulpit is not against the law in this country, although it may be in the future," Lindell said in the sermon. Even in the Roman Catholic Church, the obvious structure does not prevent sin or other problems, so I dont think it is a matter either of too much or not enough structure making us fall short of perfection. The bible sayz dat soon the darkness is coming when no one will be listening. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. paul was all about not having followers or being glorified. Hasnt it been around long enough that either people (especially younger guys) are sick of it, or they have finally realized its harmful or obnoxious? Not that I dont admire Saul/Paul. His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. . They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. The mighty Kari Jobe is featured in some of the faking it videos they play in the classes. Some Pentecostals or Charismatics are okay with women being preachers or teachers. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! It is like anyone else that works hard to build something. starting to act animalistic the resistance is increasing, how will stephen respond?. Also, you dont want the sheep to get uppity. he was chosen because the apostles couldnt be bothered by distributing food to widows) first martyr in church. Because 12 years ago Walter Salles made an awesome movie about him called The Motorcycle Diaries starring the gentle heartthrob Gael Garcia Bernal as Che. I am the way and the truth, no one comes to the Father, but through Me -Jesus, all those who call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved!. I have to disagree Gus considering you mentioned brain cells. I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. Lindell hit two main points: the Bible is clear in its condemnation of homosexuality as sin and the ordinance is an infringement on the religious rights of Christians who believe so. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. In December 2007, Merle and I quietly left Mars Hill Church. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. I think many. Three women have now blown the whistle on a program operated by the Ministry, including allegations they entered as independent people, however came out of the program as broken and suicidal. Having a large following for a while, being insulated from most of reality, produces this result. one person, after 6 months finally started to say why they didnt attend gateway anymore and it made me wonder why people dont warn others. Theres a persistent rumor that hes going to bring his show here to Phoenix. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. He urged Christians living in the city limits of Springfield to vote to repeal the law and to leave church with a Yes-On-Repeal yard sign. There will be a day of reckoning. Sorry, I dont know why I wrote that, Ive always thought of you as a him. Was Pastor Lindells statement just a slip or an attempt to rewrite history? My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. But forgiveness doesnt mean the church should open itself to his abuse again no need to return him to the pulpit since he wasnt a genuine minister to begin with; there was no evidence of the call of God on his life given his dismal run as a pastor. God knows that we dont need that sort of ministry again.. Popularity and attention of the masses is not the right motive for serving the Lord. And the honest churches will know that most of the allegations are true and will be too ashamed to say anything. Yes, well, my sense of humor doesnt always translate well in the blogosphere . For more information about James River Church and to get connected, click the link below! That is certainly not an idea they got from the Bible. if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. It takes at least 6 months before you start seeing things clearly. Youre right. I hope more will speak up in the future. Gramp3 and I were recalling today the first time we ever heard Driscolls name brought up in a church. Youre not one of us. He can be forgiven. It came swiftly and with great effect. John Lindell, pastor of James River Church, represents a new breed of reformed Assembly of God pastors yes Calvinism in the Assembly of God! It seems foolish from a marketing and business view to alienate over half your customers.. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. Then I would take notice that there might be something to their repentance. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/. If the congregation, the pew sitter as you say, cannot do it what does that leave? Gateway also directly lifted the slogan every number has a name, every name has a story.. spiel verbatim from Perry Nobles NewSpring to try to distract from the reality that every member is seen as a giving unit number (no attribution to Perry, of course). Has he asked them to forgive him? A lot of people will say, 'I got that. Those who challenged him were openly chastised, disgracefully removed from membership and/or shunned until the organization he created finally said enough is enough and sent him packing (however, with a nice severance package). He needs to clean up the mess that he made. The opposition is to Jesus. OT but of interest: the former pastor of a megachurch in Richmond, VA goes on trial tomorrow on charges of sexually abusing two minors in Texas some years ago. I have read many accounts that his nickname throughout life was el chancho (pig). There are plenty of people within the Christian faith that have their own issues with mega churches but people outside of it especially do. ( a stage really ) Same old spin .different tune. as to revenue streams, Jesus paid His taxes with money a fish popped up with. Same deal with Driscoll, just a different sound track. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? Its just that it isnt what a NT pastor of a group of Christians should be doing. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. I believe in forgiveness, but cautious about putting such folks back on the platform. Where David cut the fabric from Sauls garment in the cave, showing he could have killed Saul but didnt, reflects Gods desire that David not physically harm Saul. Seriously? Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. So, I read what he wrote, I listened to his speeches, sermons, etc. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by, and they merely judge based on either looks, speaking ability, or how fun the service is. There was no light show. Until that flaw is named and claimed, it is reasonable to expect this kind of thing to happen again. Watch LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm, and 7pm as well as every Wednesday at 7pm. It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. Dont you want to be a part of that? Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? Mark Driscoll has a lot of repenting to do and until he does that he should not be permitted to preach/speak at any church. (remembering marks sermon about mark being king) jesus is seated and he stands up for stephen. "Although I don't think I'm going to 'love' this column.". What in the world could someone with his outlandish views contribute to conferences at Hillsong or James River? This weekend GW is also doing Steven Furtick spontaneous baptism which are executed to the letter like Elevation. If there is one thing I know it is that those around Acts 29 circles are now in Mark who? :o) I would view it like this: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are worth investigating with openess and transparancy. He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. BTW they didnt have a head worship pastor. In 1969, he was transferred to a church in Fairmont, W.Va. What Im curious though is how the church (corporate) can self regulate against that in the face of the money and power, both spiritual and temporal, that types like MD help create. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. Actually, I think the timing was just for that reason. Yes, I have been witnessing first hand over the years of the Calvinism in the AG. Welcome Home to Church Online! Many others voiced their concerns about the images coming out of the church over the weekend, including Springfield-Greene County Health Director Clay Goddard, who said he was shocked by what he saw considering Missouri currently has more than 328,000 cases of the virus and no less than 4,358 deaths since the pandemic began. Driscoll should not be granted any level of power till he has demonstrated that he has obtained the humility necessary to handle it. James River Church's 2020 Christmas service. A cynical, weary part of me says theyll never change. In 2019, James River reported an average weekly attendance of 19,000,[1]making it one of the ten largest AG churches and one of the largest churches in Missouri (subsequently Springfield). "It is possible for someone who has practiced a life of adultery to stop," he said in the sermon. OZARK, Mo. Im fairly certain MD would enjoy being categorized with a so called revolutionary. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. Bummer. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. But with those reading glasses they are losing their hipness and relevance and megas feed off of young marrieds with children. If so you may be onto something. During those early years they had a great impact on hurting people and a great testimony of the work of the Lord in a group of people dedicated to doing whatever He led them to do. now it seems that it has just gone to big business making a dollar off of Jesus name and some easy to quote scriptures. what they are. Love, Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation). Title Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. forgiveness means its paid in full. After surrendering more than 10% of your gross income for years you are tens of thousands of dollars into them at that point and that can really bolster all the cognitive dissonance you feel and strangely work to prevent your leaving. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. Certainly, or we are no better than he is. I am sorry if anything I wrote about Che offended you. To learn more, visit ja. I really appreciate your insights Lydia. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? Or is it just a GW thing? Edit: Thank you to everyone who commented. 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. Covenants, ruling elders, etc. During this pandemic, we have helped thousands of people with food, financial assistance, counsel, and. It was dingy and old. Not a fan but many are. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. Seems odd that Robert, Tom Lane and Jimmy Evans need to be pounding their book sales so hard when they are all getting raptured in the next 3.5 years. And he was not originally trusted or met with open arms by the Jesus believers of the day. hmmm I think people on all sides of these conflicts did some pretty horrendous things, as well as some decent things. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. It does not mean that forgiveness is lacking. I think what became public is enough to realize they are not safe, not mature but toxic and have been all along. Che was tots adorbs. I asked people who were about as famous (if that is what you call it) as him what they thought. Come on Lindell, Morris, Kellogg and Johnston. sometimes i have hurt people because i have gotten caught up in the excitement of a new orginazation or enterprise but i have never been able to stay that way long, my conscience pricks me until i stop and go back and make things right with people i have hurt. And later did sort of brag about how beneficial it was to him in his spiritual life. Very simple. I sometimes think the man has no friends, but if he does, they should help him now. And equally astonishing is that other Christian leaders support his abusive style or at least overlook it. Connect With Us! Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. Mark Driscoll was totally missing those things. Prayer Requests . Judging a pastors or missionaries repentance is not being critical of pastors, its saying, this is a position that has really high moral qualifications and if you dont have them, get out of the pulpit. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. It is the normalization of sociopathy. While I appreciate that we were exposed to different theologians, it seemed the bent was toward Calvinism. I do hope he finds wholeness. Join us for life-giving worship, encouraging stories and testimonies, and a powerful message from Pastor John. Its just too lucrative of a franchise, you dont want to lose that. Pastor daddy Mike Baker is furious and says he's been mistreated-"slander," etc. It is an issue of protecting other people. your post, and this one i read on facebook yesterday: I then stood up and pointed out that 30 lines below the famous quote All men are created equal the Declaration of Independence refers to Natives as merciless Indian savages. http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/. then mark goes on to teach us that we must forgive even if the person never admits wrong or says I am sorry: They will also show several very slickly produced commercials that feature smiling, giddy, laughing people all celebrating together. Look all those happy people; this must be a great place! when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). But I did find this on the IRS website: A tax-exempt organization "may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.". I will post about this. Of course he gave all kinds of excuses, Im young, brash, etc. But as he aged, and he spoke more and more, nothing changed, it got more vulgar, more illicit language, more rude, more obnoxious. The worship leaders laugh about it. Lindell's sermon is further entwined with politics because he mentions Springfield Mayor Bob Stephens. Likewise, in house churches sin happens because people will be people. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. And i honestly had no idea that that phrase was in there. For those who follow celebrities, I dont, this is the church that made it into the news last year. i am going to get a can of alpha-wolf-away and spray out my apartment now. Driscoll does not meet the biblical qualifications to be a preacher. Just typing this has made me a bit queasy. Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. was paul asking for forgiveness? plausible they shoved that in jesus mouth, with that taste on his lips. (the death of Jesus on the cross as written in the bible is not enough, mark adds something more exciting and sickening like they shoved an a##-wipe sponge in Jesus mouth.) @ sam: I dont think Christians have to throw out common sense/reason/logic. At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. Unless he completely revamps his life and his teachings, hes going to leave damaged lives in his wake. LT wrote: I hope you encourage them to visit TWW. So, if he became a member of a church, attended that for a while, accepting to do all kinds of unglamorous jobs that church members often do for their church, apprenticed with a pastor in a mainline church, where the position of pastor has a lot less power, tried to reconcile with the people he treated the worst well, maybe. kudos to the hosts of the aussie tv show that made brian huston look at the absolute facts and rediculousness of his supporting (and paying for) an american mega pastor who is well known in christian circuits I use the term rediculous because I dont want to be mean or judgmental, but I believe that brian was all for helping mark get back in the saddle until it cost him some publicity. In their case, they just use Jesus as marketing tool to sell their own image.It is not like they have not had access to truth. I would think that rehabilitation for him would be finding a job where he was not the boss and not the teacher. especially i want to comment Bills comment: A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. i have seen this with great fruit but sooner or later they seem to join a church and then get into the organized one leader concept of church, usually a small church and then i have seen the vision they had and the practice of each one seeking the Lord individually disapear and be replaced by how to organize and raise funds to do more in the name of the Lord. Are you not reporting instant healing to keep the confirmed miracle count up? paul was the most influential person in christianity after Jesus.